三泰虎

除了美國以外,為何其他國家都沒把人送上月球?中國和印度會啟動太空計劃嗎

Why haven't countries other than the USA sent a man to the moon? Why did the Soviets stop its efforts to reach the moon? Will China or India start a space program?

為什么除了美國以外,其他國家都沒能把人送上月球?為什么蘇聯停止了登月的努力?中國或印度會啟動太空計劃嗎?

以下是Quora讀者的評論:

C Stuart Hardwick, Scifi author and science nerd.

The Apollo missions required a 36-story rocket. 

I work on the 34th floor. To go to the Moon, we needed a rocket two floors taller than my office if you count the launch escape tower. In 2016 dollars, it cost $711 million to build a Saturn V – that's just to build it, not to fly it. For comparison, the 86 year-old, 102-story Empire State Building cost $637 million in 2016 dollars. But the Saturn wasn't built to keep and use for 86 years, it was built to go up on a pillar of flame and be reduced over the next few days into dust, debris, and a few precious keepsakes.

People say space travel is so expensive because it's like throwing away a jumbo jet at the end of every trip. No, it's like throwing away an Empire State Building at the end of every trip, or crashing a jumbo jet into two more sitting on the ground.

阿波羅計劃需要一架36層高的火箭。

我在34樓工作。要去月球,我們需要一架比我辦公室還高兩層的火箭,如果算上發射逃生塔的話。以2016年的美元價值計算,建造一架土星5號花費了7.11億美元——只是建造,還不是飛行。相比之下,擁有86年歷史的102層帝國大廈按2016年的美元價值計算,造價為6.37億美元。但是土星號的建造并不能保存和使用86年,它就是為了點火升空,在接下來的幾天里就將淪為灰塵、碎片和一些珍貴的紀念品。

人們說太空旅行太過昂貴,就像每次旅行結束時就報廢一架大型噴氣式飛機。不,這就像每次旅行結束時都要報廢一座帝國大廈,或者把一架大型噴氣式飛機撞向地上的另外兩架。

IT'S EXPENSIVE.

The Soviet Union aborted their own manned lunar program after their rocket, almost as big as ours but substantially less capable, blew itself and its launchpad straight to Hell. They were planning a mission that would have sent one cosmonaut down to the surface alone, something that with the technology of the time, NASA considered unacceptably dangerous.

太空計劃是非常昂貴的。

蘇聯放棄了他們自己的載人登月計劃,因為他們的火箭幾乎和我們的火箭一樣大,但他們的能力明顯不如我們,他們把火箭和發射臺直接炸飛了。他們正在計劃一項任務,將一名宇航員單獨送到地面,在當時的技術條件下,NASA認為這太過危險。

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It's the boldest, most adventursome, most HUMAN accomplishment in the history of our species, but to move beyond it to the true, economic exploitation of the next frontier, we have to change the economics.

Technology has improved in the decades since Apollo, but not as much as you might think. Other than its computers, most of the technology used on Apollo remains essentially state-of-the-art. To open up space, we need ships that don't have to carry all their oxidizer with them and that aren't fated to burn up after one use. That's why these guys are so important right now:

But we also need ships that aren't so complex they end up being more expensive than the disposables they replace. Nothing in space is easy, but we'll get there.

這是我們人類歷史上最大膽、最冒險、最人類的成就,但要超越它,進入真正的經濟開發,我們必須調整成本。

自阿波羅計劃以來的幾十年里,技術已經有所進步,但并沒有你想象的那么多。除了計算機,阿波羅號上使用的大部分技術基本上都是最先進的。為了開辟空間,我們需要的船只不需要攜帶所有的氧化劑,也不需要在一次使用后就被燒毀。這就是為什么這些人現在如此重要:

但我們也需要不那么復雜的船舶,它們會比替換的一次性用品更昂貴。在太空中沒有什么任務是簡單容易的,但我們會成功的。

 

Jerry Greelis, Working on Object Teleportation

First, Mr. Hardwick has stated the reason why other countries, including the U.S.  has not gone (nor gone back) to the Moon; extremely expensive, both back then and still today. I worked the Apollo mission at JPL, we backed up the Manned Space Flight Network (MSFN) with the Deep Space Network (DSN), an additional mission cost for human safety with redundancy.  We became critical for Apollo 13.

Mr. Hardwick stated why the mission was so expensive, one huge cost was getting the spacecraft up into space with a 36 story rocket.  I live in Florida today and seen this monster at the Space Visitor Center, of course this being small compared to the SLS coming down the pike; costing a billion dollars.

首先,Hardwick先生闡述了包括美國在內的其他國家的原因沒有去(沒有重回)月球的原因;非常昂貴,無論是過去還是現在。我在噴氣推進實驗室執行阿波羅任務,我們用深空網絡(DSN)來支持載人航天飛行網絡(MSFN),這是一項額外的任務,用來保障人類的安全。我們對阿波羅13號而言至關重要。

Hardwick先生解釋了為什么這次任務這么昂貴的原因,其中一個巨大的成本是需要用一個36層的火箭將宇宙飛船送入太空。我今天住在佛羅里達州,在太空游客中心看到了這個怪物,當然,和即將到來的SLS相比,這個怪物還是要小得多;耗資多達10億美元。

譯文來源:三泰虎 http://www.sdbgek.tw/48393.html 譯者:Joyceliu

To me today, the real answer why nobody else went to the Moon is because the science behind the missions forcing the participants into using the extremely expensive technology.  Just think, if we had the technology to put a person on the Moon or Mars for a million dollars total, how many would go there today?  Is this technology available today?  That answer is yes and no, most probably yes, however, locked up in the military’s top secret projects.  No because, Ben Rich, past Lockheed director of ‘Skunk Works’ stated it would take an act of God to get the technology out of the military top secret projects for humanity’s benefit.

Mr. Rich claimed, almost a quarter of a century ago, their technology allows them to both reach the stars and take ETs back home.  Their propulsion system is obviously not expensive rockets, and a trip to the Moon, or even to Mars would be a piece of cake today.  When an engineer asked what propulsion system they were using, he answered ‘do you know how ESP works?’  then stating that’s exactly how it (the propulsion system) works.

今天對我來說,沒有人登陸月球的真正原因是,登月任務背后的科學要求迫使參與者使用極其昂貴的技術。試想,如果我們有技術把一個人送上月球或火星,總花費100萬美元,會有多少人登陸那里呢?這種技術現在出現了嗎?答案是肯定的,也有可能是否定的,然而,軍方將此作為最高機密項目束之高閣了。不,因為洛克希德公司前“臭鼬工廠”主任本•里奇曾表示,為了人類的利益,把這項技術從軍事絕密項目中公開是不可抵擋的趨勢。

里奇先生聲稱,約25年前,他們的技術使他們既能到達月球,又能返回地球。他們的推進系統顯然不是昂貴的火箭,到月球旅行,甚至火星旅行在今天都是小菜一碟。當一位工程師問他們使用的是什么推進系統時,他回答說,你知道ESP是如何工作的嗎?然后說明推進系統就是這樣工作的。

The core reason for the military projects achievements versus the NASA and other countries’ space initiatives lies within the science they are using. The military top secret projects are not locked into the science being taught today, but NASA and everyone else has no other option.  Mr. Hardwick is correct in his assessment why no other country has attempted a Lunar Mission because of the expense, however, the root of the problem is not money at all, it is because of the science used in order to get there; forcing the expense.

與美國宇航局和其他國家的太空計劃相比,軍事項目取得成就的核心原因在于它們所使用的科學技術。軍事絕密項目并不局限于今天所教授的科學,但NASA和其他所有人別無選擇。Hardwick先生的評估是正確的,為什么其他國家沒有嘗試月球任務,原因就是成本,但問題的根本不是錢,而是因為采用了什么科學技術;被迫產生了費用。

 

Mark Anthony, Internet Marketing, American Patriot, Business Professiona

Laughing at some of the crazy answers here...  China and India already have a space program.  They have all the technology needed to colonize the moon since we basically gave them everything we had in 2009. They just need to get up to speed with it and be able to understand what all they have. We overwhelmed them with technology and information.

But for America?  Too expensive?  Really??  You say that while typing on a keyboard made from a chemical that was perfected from space research.  You are using the Internet that got a huge jump forward with the creation of the semi conductor that was perfected by technology created for the space program and the race to the moon.

And the medication you take to function in the real world came from a space exploration program.

有人寫了很瘋狂的答案,我要笑瘋了…中國和印度已經有了太空計劃。他們擁有殖民月球所需的所有技術,因為我們基本上已經把我們2009年擁有的一切都給了他們。他們只需要跟上時代的步伐,掌握他們所擁有的一切。我們用技術和信息征服了他們。

但對美國而言?太貴了?你認真的嗎?當你在鍵盤上打字的時候,是否知道鍵盤是由一種化學物質制成的,這種化學物質是在太空研究中得到了完善。你正在使用的互聯網,因為半導體的發明而取得了巨大的進步,它是在太空計劃和登月競賽的技術中得到完善的。

你在現實世界中使用的藥物就來自于某個太空探索項目。

We have learned almost all that we can from going to the moon. 

Most politicians now, are looking only at the next election, not at the future.  Remember, it was President Kennedy that said He wanted America to go to the moon by the end of the DECADE, not the end of the election cycle.  He saw the long term gains of space.  He was in it for America and knew it would not be easy or fast but it would be beneficial to all.

If the International Space Station was a fixed base on the moon, its overall costs would be cut in half and we launch from there outward would be cheaper and more efficient in the long run.  But expensive in the short term and would take international cooperation. 

我們幾乎從登月中學到了我們能學到的所有東西。

大多數政客現在只關注下屆選舉,而不是未來。記住,肯尼迪總統說他想讓美國在十年內登月,而不是在選舉周期結束時。他看到了太空的長遠利益。他投身其中是為了美國,他知道這并非易事,不是一朝一夕能完成的,但這對所有人都是有益的。

如果國際空間站成為月球上的固定基地,它的總成本將減少一半,從長遠來看,我們從那里向外太空發射火箭將更便宜、更有效。但在短期內代價高昂,需要國際間的通力合作。

 

Ian Miller, Author, physical scientist

Why would they? There has to be a reason to spend the money. The US did it essentially for propaganda reasons, and of course to be the first there there was a huge scientific payoff. But once the moon rocks were analysed, from the scientific point of view we were rapidly hitting the law of diminishing returns. The next step is t go to the moon and do something.

The problem is, what? The moon is airless. and short of water, nitrogen, and just about  everything we need. Yes, we can still do things there, but it is not pressing. maybe one day we will want to go to get 3He, useful for fusion. Only problem, as yet we don't know how to carry out fusion.

Basically, we have more important things to do than go back to the moon.  But one day I feel we will go into space. Just not yet.

他們為什么要這樣做呢?花錢一定要有理由。美國這么做本質上是出于宣傳的原因,當然,作為第一個成功的國家,也帶來了巨大的科學回報。但一旦對月球巖石進行了分析,從科學的角度來看,我們很快就發現了回報遞減定律。下一步是到月球上做什么。

問題是,做什么呢?月球上沒有空氣。缺少水,氮氣,以及我們所需要的一切。是的,我們仍然可以在那里做一些事情,但這不是什么緊急的事。也許有一天我們會想要得到對核聚變有用的3He。但現在唯一的問題是,我們還不知道如何進行核聚變。

總之,我們有比重返月球更重要的事情要做。但是我覺得我們總有一天會進入太空。只是現在還沒有開始做而已。

 

Wade Schmaltz

The ESA, Japan, Russia, and China all have plans to put men (or women) on the Moon. Private companies may be planning to go as well. NASA has cancelled it's plans to go back.

It's expensive, difficult to do, and it's very dangerous. It takes a lot of foresight, planning, research, engineering, and development. Before any of that begins, you need a reason to go, and you have to obtain funding before you even get started.

The US is the only country to have done so, and every step of the way was a new problem never considered before. When they first put a man in space, they didn't know if he would be able to breathe, or to swallow, without gravity to help. The first men back from the Moon were placed into immediate quarantine for nearly four days while tests were done, just in case they brought back some strange virus that would kill us all.

歐洲航天局、日本、俄羅斯和中國都計劃將男性(或女性)送上月球。私營企業可能也計劃這么做。美國宇航局已經取消了重返月球的計劃。

這種太空計劃很貴,很難,而且非常危險。這需要大量的遠見、規劃、研究、工程和研發。在這一切開始之前,你需要一個離開的理由,甚至在你開始之前,你必須獲得資金。

美國是唯一做到的國家,登月之路上的每一步都是一個全新的問題。當他們第一次把人類送入太空時,他們不知道他是否能在沒有重力的幫助下呼吸或吞咽。第一批從月球回來的人被立即隔離了近四天,同時進行了測試,以防他們帶回一些會殺死我們所有人類的奇怪病毒。

China successfully put the Yutu (rover) on the Moon in 2013, and it's still sending pictures and data. It was the first lunar landing in nearly forty years. It got stuck in the sand about 50 meters from the lander, and it's been stuck there in place ever since. They're sending another one up soon.

2013年,中國成功地將“玉兔”號(月球車)送上月球,目前仍在發送圖片和數據。這是近四十年來的第一次登月。它被困在離著陸器50米遠的沙堆里,登陸后就一直被困在那里。他們很快會往月球上再送一個。

 

Richard J Breen, BS physics U ND '631/2 Ms Ed LI U 70 tested Nukes" in Nevada RR stuff in Colorado Boeing engineer retired 9...

it was a race! USA "won" but  at GREAT COST , in money and almost in lives.

Russia had fatal failures. It was  just too expensive for them. the Soviets DID put up the first satellite ( in the process demonstrating that they could have an intercontinental missile which shocked America) Soviets also had the first animal, the first man and the first woman in space and the first exploration of Venus.

I was part of the nuclear missile test business in the late 1960s.

America CANCELED a later moon flight.  the near earth space station and the american soviet cooperation was much more useful for spam exploration.

In the future (decades) there will probably be a permanent international station on the moon. it is a much better place to put a base.

remember we are ONLY 200 miles from the ISS space station , but it is 240,000 miles to the moon.

the answer to your Q is very simple $$$$$$$$$$$$$ and technical ability

這是一場比賽!美國“贏了”,但是付出了巨大的代價,金錢和生命。

俄羅斯遭受了致命的失敗。對他們來說成本太高了。蘇聯確實發射了第一顆衛星(在這個過程中,他們有能力發射洲際導彈,震驚了美國),蘇聯也將第一只動物,第一個男人和第一個女人進入太空,還對金星進行了第一次探索。

上世紀60年代末,我開始參與核導彈試驗業務。

美國取消了后來的一次登月飛行。近地空間站和美蘇合作對太空探測更有幫助。

在未來(幾十年內)可能會在月球上搭建一個永久的國際空間站。這是一個更好的基地。

記住,我們離國際空間站只有200英里,但它離月球有24萬英里。

你的問題的答案很簡單:就是錢和技術。

 

Eric Worrall, Director of Desirable Apps

Because nobody has the balls to do what must be done.

The Manhattan scientists developed a space drive in the 1950s, which would have allowed affordable exploration and colonisation of space. The most powerful version of the space drive could have powered a starship - sent a manned mission to Alpha Centauri, at 10% of the speed of light.

The space drive was briefly considered for the Apollo mission. But the space drive was nuclear. The old NAZI V2 scientist Wernher von Braun successfully campaigned against the nuclear option - so Apollo used spectacular, but utterly impractical chemical rockets, based on his old V2 systems.

I’ve sometimes wondered whether Von Braun’s vigorous defence of chemical rockets was his last gift to his Fuhrer. Because when he won the debate, not only did he stunt the space ambitions of the world which had rejected the NAZI philosophy he supported, he also ensured that the Jew Albert Einstein’s legacy to the world would be a terrible weapon, instead of a new space drive which could have opened our way to the stars.

因為沒有人有勇氣去做必須做的事。

曼哈頓的科學家們在20世紀50年代開始了太空計劃,使太空探索和殖民成為可能。最強大的太空驅動器可以為一艘星際飛船提供動力——以光速的10%向半人馬座阿爾法星發射載人任務。

阿波羅計劃也曾考慮過太空探索。但太空動力是核能。老納粹V2科學家沃納·馮·布勞恩成功地發起了反對核動力的運動——因此阿波羅使用了壯觀但完全不切實際的化學火箭。

我有時想知道馮·布勞恩對化學火箭的有力防御,是不是他送給元首的最后一份禮物。因為當他贏得這場辯論時,他不僅挫敗了拒絕他所支持的納粹哲學的世界的太空野心,還確保了猶太人阿爾伯特·愛因斯坦留給世界的遺產將是一個可怕的武器,而不是一個可以為我們開辟道路的新的太空之旅。

 

Nihal Ansari, Blockchain Consultant (2016-present)

1.Moon race was an exercise considered important enough to prove techincal dominance in space during the cold war. There were only 2 competitors. US and USSR. The first group to reach moon was going to be remembered. Not the other one! Hence Russia never took active interest once US was already successful.

2.During 60s Russia was ahead in terms of technology for reaching moon. It was the death of once of the lead rocket designers (Sergei Korolev - Wikipedia) and possible internal politics that led to project delays. This time was effectively used by US to catch up.

3.The space missions of relatively poor countries like India and China are more of a “proof of capability” exercises. They are desperate attempts to prove to the world that they have the same kind of capabilities that the “superpowers” possess. Apparent aim is to be included in the elite group. However, original research lacks in both these countries because of high rate of poverty and education quality. That is the reason they keep working on things that others have achieved decades back.

1.登月競賽被認為是一項重要的活動,足以證明冷戰期間在太空技術上的主導地位。全世界范圍內只有兩個競爭者。美國和蘇聯。第一批到達月球的人將被世人永遠銘記。因此,當美國取得成功后,俄羅斯局不再表現出積極的興趣。

2.60年代,俄羅斯在登月技術方面處于領先地位。曾經的主要火箭設計師(謝爾蓋·科羅廖夫-維基百科)的死亡和國內政治導致了項目的延遲。美國利用了這段時間有效地迎頭趕上。

3.印度和中國等相對貧窮國家的太空任務更多的是“能力的證明”。他們不顧一切地試圖向世界證明,他們擁有與“超級大國”同樣的能力。很明顯,他們的目標是躋身精英群體。然而,由于兩國的高貧困率和教育質量,他們缺乏原創的研究。這就是為什么他們一直在做別人幾十年前就已經完成的事情。

 

Kévin Leroux

Why send someone who can die when you can send robots which are cheaper and more efficient ?

Of course sending a man on the moon is a technological breakthrough and a powerful show of science and technology for the country who did it.

However, it stop there, the soviets weren't going to send a man on the moon to be second it has no interest and they had huge problems with their rockets which was going worse because their main scientist Mr. korolev (the soviet equivalent of von Braun) died.

Today it's different, technology has massively improved as science. We now know that the moon is rich in resources which could be exploited and the moon could be used as a base to send men to other planets such as Mars.

當你可以使用更便宜、更高效的機器人時,為什么還要派一個可能會死的人呢?

當然,將人類送上月球是一項技術突破,也是對登月國家科學技術的有力展示。

然而,事情就到此為止了,蘇聯人不會想要成為第二個將人類送上月球的國家,他們沒有興趣,他們的火箭也存在很大的問題,他們的主要科學家科洛列夫先生(相當于蘇聯的馮·布勞恩)去世了,情況進一步惡化。

今天情況不同了,科技作為科學得到了巨大的進步。我們現在知道,月球有豐富的資源,可以進行開發,月球可以作為一個將人類送往其他星球的基地,如火星。

Also the world had changed since 1969, the USSR collapsed and China became a new adversary to the US so we could get another space course.

But it cost money to send a man on the moon even if I think the US will launch a woman for history and also it requires a solid political engagement, Kennedy made it clear and his death probably boosted the program

For countries like China and India they need to get a good level of experience in this field, China has made big steps such as successfully land a robot on the dark side of the moon and India is doing similar program such as successfully sending probes even they are behind China actually.

I don't know if other countries could do this but it's likely that we see a man on the moon in the next 10-20 years.

此外,自1969年以來,世界格局發生了變化,蘇聯,中國成為美國的新對手,因此我們可能又開始議論太空競賽。

但是把一個男人送上月球是要花錢的,我認為美國會將女人送上月球來載入歷史,這也需要可靠的政治參與,肯尼迪說得很清楚,而他的死可能也促進了這個項目。

中國和印度這樣的國家,他們需要在這個領域積累好的經驗,中國已經完成了諸如在月球背面成功著陸機器人等極大進步,印度哪怕落后于中國,也正在做類似的項目,如成功發送探測器。

我不知道其他國家是否能做到這一點,但在未來10-20年內,我們很可能看到人類登上月球。

 

Doug Schwan, studied at Alternative Medicine, Physics

Only two countries up to now had the resources for a manned mission to the moon.

The Russians did participate in the race but they were hampered by their inability to manufacture large bellows required for a heavy lift rocket engine. The bellows are the large nozzles where the rocket exhaust comes out.

To compensate, instead of 5 very large rocket engines like we used in the Apollo 1st stage, they built a rocket (The N1) which had 30 separate 1st stage engines!

The vibration and shock arising out of all these engines was too much for the designers to overcome and the rockets kept exploding on launch—-one creating the largest non-nuclear man made explosion ever recorded.

The Russians gave up after the U.S. was successful and no other country has the resources to come close to duplicating the feat.

到目前為止,只有兩個國家有資源進行載人登月任務。

俄羅斯人確實參加了比賽,但由于他們無法制造重型火箭發動機所需的大型波紋管,受到了限制。波紋管是火箭排氣口的大噴嘴。

為了補償,他們沒有建造我們在阿波羅1級使用的那5個非常大的火箭引擎,而是建造了擁有30個獨立的1級引擎的火箭(N1) !

所有這些發動機產生的振動和震動都是設計者無法克服的,火箭在發射時不斷爆炸—曾導致了有史以來最大的非核人造爆炸。

在美國取得成功后,俄羅斯人放棄了,至今沒有其他國家有能力完成這一壯舉。

 

Manaal Johri, Student at La Martiniere College, Lucknow (2007-present)

Well originally space program was an enormous deal. The build-up of Apollo was highly against the backdrop of the highly charged cold war whose most visible or rather important mark was the space race between the USA and Soviet Union. But after the success of the Apollo missions, the enthusiasm significantly dropped. And people were even doubting that if NASA’s $209 Billion was even worth it. After this the Soviets were more inclined towards the making of a Space Station, and that's when Mir Space Station came into existence. After Mir they did not have much funds to uphold another Space program. And by the time they had some funds to do so the Soviet Union broke up on December 26, 1991. And for now USA and Russia together have decided to make a deep Space Station near the moon.

And as for now Indian Space Research Organization ISRO haven't told anything that if there are any space programs coming up.

And about China, well they are deciding to uphold a Space program very soon as they have announced this year in January that they will reach Mars by the end of 2020.

最初太空計劃是一件大事。阿波羅計劃是在高度緊張的冷戰背景下進行的,冷戰最明顯或相當重要的標志是美國和蘇聯之間的太空競賽。但在阿波羅任務成功后,這種熱情明顯下降。人們甚至懷疑NASA耗費的2090億美元是否值得。在這之后,蘇聯更傾向于建造空間站,和平號空間站就此誕生。和平號之后,他們沒有太多資金進行第二個太空計劃。當他們重新獲得資金的時候,蘇聯在1991年12月26日了。目前,美國和俄羅斯共同決定在月球附近建立一個深空空間站。

到目前為止,印度空間研究組織ISRO還沒有透露是否會有太空計劃。

至于中國,他們決定堅持推進太空計劃,因為他們在今年1月宣布,他們將在2020年底前登陸火星。

三泰虎原創譯文,禁止轉載!:首頁 > 印度人看中國 » 除了美國以外,為何其他國家都沒把人送上月球?中國和印度會啟動太空計劃嗎

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